[music playing]

[Narelle] Hi.

Welcome to another episode
of The Digital Access Show.

The guest this week is
a man of many talents.

He is in the process of pivoting
his career into a new stage,

and I brought Craig on because
of what his previous career was,

and where he's heading.

Please meet Craig Shanahan,

also known as The Blind Chef.

Craig, thank you so
much for coming on.

[Craig] Thanks for having me.

It's a privilege to be here
and talk to you and catch up.

[Narelle] Yeah, we haven't seen
each other for quite a while.

Craig, can you tell the listeners
a little bit about yourself?

[Craig] Yes, so,
little bit about me.

I'm 33 years of age.

I grew up in Sydney, and…

I have basically had a
few difficulties in my life.

Obviously, I lost my one eye
to cancer when I was young.

Went through life quite normal,
living a normal life.

I went to school.

Then chased my
dream job later on in life,

and…

And yeah.
So, I've got two siblings,

four nieces that I love.

And, yeah, I just have a lot
of friends and family that I,

that I love to hang out with.

And pretty, pretty standard,
normal guy, really.

[Narelle] I don't know, Craig,

because you've got a skill
that I sometimes struggle with.

You're a chef.

[Craig] I am a chef.

[Narelle] And I just think,

for me, I have a
son that's a chef.

And just the skills
and the techniques

that you use to create…

fantastic food,

and you do it without sight.

And that, to me, is…

something that
most people can't do.

Can you tell me a bit
about how you manage,

as a chef, to do the
work you were doing?

Because honestly,
people think we can't cook.

We have to cook, we have to eat.

[Craig] Exactly right.
Well, the funny thing is, and…

people will probably
be surprised by this,

but even when I did have
my vision and was a chef,

obviously, I use my vision
a bit to cook on a stove top,

or pans and things.

When it came to preparing food,

a lot of the time,

you do these jobs
over and over again,

you don't look at
what you're doing.

You guide the the knife with
your hand and things like that.

So you find yourself not even
concentrating on things like that

throughout the
time you're working.

But for myself,

being able to do it,

it's a lot of concentrating.

So setting out, obviously
a layout of the kitchen,

and being able to follow
that, using my surroundings.

So, a lot of flat line benches,

kind of positioned
where I would stand…

to be able to do this, and…

in terms of the cooking
and things like that,

again, it comes down to feel.

So, with chicken
and things like that,

it was a lot of timing.

So, you might use a temperature
probe or things like that.

But also,
just the more you do it,

and the more you
become, it becomes natural.

And you can normally go
off timing and things like that.

So that's kind of how I…

changed or pivoted my cooking,

to when I could see
to when I couldn't.

And a lot of the times I did have
other chefs in there as well.

If I was unsure about something,
I'd always be able to just,

you know, double check by them

before I got to the customer.

But…

it's actually more exciting
being vision impaired.

Like, you know, apart
from presentation,

you kind of get amazed
on what you can cook.

There's ways of doing that, so.

I was pretty capable
of being able to do,

do the things without my vision,
as much as I was when I had it.

[Narelle] Yeah, and that's
what I find interesting.

Because I know for me,
if I cook a steak,

I don't cook a
steak all the time,

so I do use a talking
temperature probe.

But you would be
getting so used to it

that you don't have to do that,

because it comes
from muscle memory

and just knowing
your job, isn't it?

After all,

if you're going to feed a dog,

you just know one
cup, wear the food.

You don't actually look at it.

The thing is it's muscle memory.

[Craig] A lot of the
chefs in the industry,

you know, for those home cooks,

you know, they might be cooking
one or two steaks at a time.

Most industry will be cooking,
you know, over 40 steaks a night.

So, they don't have time to
check it with a probe and things.

So, they learn how to
do it with their hands,

like feeling the the
softness of the meat.

[Narelle] Yeah.

[Craig] But as you mentioned,

there's so much assistive
technology out there.

Like today, I use
scales that talk to me,

a measuring cup that talks to me.

And, you know, there's also,

you know, probes
that talk to you.

There's assistive technology
that can help in that way.

I tend to not use
that most of the times,

if I can't, like,
if I don't have to.

But at the same time,
when you're cooking for yourself,

you don't have to impress.

So you kind of, you know,

if you're happy with it,
you're happy with it, you know?

[Narelle] Yeah.

One of the things
you did as a chef,

is you actually
opened your own cafe.

[Craig] I did, yes.

That's probably one of
the biggest highlights of…

my life so far.

I was very, very…

fortunate to be able
to do that after COVID.

It was a big time in my life,

where I put a lot of
work and effort into that.

Obviously doing the TAFE
and all the certifications,

and things like that,
things that I…

never knew you had
to do to have a cafe.

And yeah, I enjoyed
every minute of it,

and all the people
that I got to meet.

And obviously still to today,

like I talked to
some of my staff,

and to see them grow in their
careers is pretty fortunate.

Or awesome, actually.

But, yeah.

I still get in the public, still…

come up and people
ask me about the cafe,

and what I'm doing now
and things like that, so.

That's kind of another
reason why I'm pivoting into…

what I'm doing next to,

you know,

not really keep them updated,

but more to share what I'm doing

and what I've
actually come through

in the other aspects of life.

And…

But yeah, so back to the cafe.

As you know, as you said,
The Blind Chef cafe in Penrith…

We were very successful
when I was there,

and the amazing
food that we got to do,

and a lot of customers came…

for the fact that we were
accessible for disability also.

[Narelle] That's what
I want to talk about.

Because where I live,

most cafes, most restaurants,
are not accessible.

You know, from the
menu being on the board,

and I can't read a board,

to using crazy fonts that are not
well picked up by OCR on a phone

or whatever,
you know, tool you use.

What are the accessibility
things that a cafe…

needs to do?

And why aren't they done?

Generally?

[Craig] Yeah. So, that's a
big reason why I did what I did.

I'm a food lover, and I travel
all over Sydney for food.

From cafes,
you know, in my local area,

all the way to the city
where I do a lot of fine dining.

And I found myself,

it was as simple as the layout.

As you guys that have
a cane or a guide dog,

there's not a lot
of room in cafes.

-[Craig] They seem to just…
-[Narelle] No.

[Craig] A lot of tables and
chairs where they can, and…

just trying to get some bums,
you know, which is what,

what I really struggled with.

Even now, I never really
go to many cafes myself,

due to the fact that
I'm not sure the layout

or if it's going to be the same.

So when I did the cafe,

the first thing I
did was layout.

I made it very
accessible in terms of,

one way, like straight
down the middle.

Seats were very planned and…

in the same spot,

and also a lot of
room for guide dogs.

So that was the
first thing I did.

Second, I even went as
far as doing the lighting,

for myself as my chef,

I was always in the front
of house carrying food,

which was quite funny too,

because when I
would get to the table,

they had to grab
the plates off me,

because I couldn't put them down.

[Narelle] Yeah.

[Craig] I did the LED
strips down the middle,

So if I was ever lost,
I could look up,

and kind of see the
light and follow that back.

[Narelle] That's a good idea.
That's a really good idea.

And even for using
for fire escape exits,

[Craig] Exactly right, yeah.

So,

that was one of the big things
that I was pretty proud of.

As much as I was helping others,
I was also helping myself.

[Narelle] Yeah.

[Craig] So, I did different
textures of plates and cutlery,

so those that had some vision
could make out different objects.

[Narelle] Yep.

[Craig] But yeah, when we're
talking about ordering food,

one big thing is
just training the staff.

If someone saw
someone visually impaired

that come into the cafe,

they would kind of,

you know, ask if
they needed a hand,

or what were the specials,

and more just being able to be
open and communicating with them.

[Narelle] Yeah.

[Craig] I had Braille menus.

[Narelle] Oh, that's
a good one. Yes.

[Craig] Yes. So we
had Braille menus,

which was for the
drinks and the food,

which,

pretty good to have.

And we also made
large font menus as well.

So, those that
could see a little bit,

we'd hand out the large
font menus to the customers.

So, everyone kind of knew that,

you know, they were welcome.

And that's what was
really awesome about it,

is we catered for them,
but we also built a space for…

all disability people to come,

whether they're blind, deaf or,

you know, other
avenues of the disability.

They all felt welcome, so it was
pretty awesome to be able to,

to be able to have that.

[Narelle] Yeah.

Did that involve a lot of
extra cost in doing that?

[Craig] No, funnily enough,

it didn't really.

Like, if you changed the menu,

you just need a Braille,
obviously, typewriter as such.

[Narelle] Yep. Yep.

[Craig] And…

in terms of printing out a menu,
it's just changing the font size.

So, it was no different
to doing it in the office,

at the cafe, or…

going down to the good old
Office works and getting it done.

But no, it's not a lot of
extra cost, to be honest.

Which is what I'm trying to
kind of share as well to other…

avenues.

I think since I've done
it in the Penrith region,

a few cafes have caught
on and tried to cater that.

And I think that's just from
now knowing that they're…

not that they didn't
know before, but…

trying to be more aware,

more awareness that
there's other disability…

people that'd like to come and
making it welcome to them too.

So it's just more
about putting out there,

and having everyone do it.

[Narelle] Did you find that you
had to do anything much different

with the website to
make that accessible?

[Craig] I did.

Obviously, making it accessible
for all screen readers…

was the first
priority for myself.

[Narelle] Yeah.

[Craig] So, that was kind
of a bit out of my expertise,

where I would, I got a web
designer to help me do that,

and simply because I wanted it
to be accessible online as well.

There's, obviously,

a lot of screen readers,
and phone things,

and apps out there now
that that do that sort of stuff.

But yeah, I think it
was just more about…

finding the expert,

the people that had the
expertise to do that, and…

and that's obviously
how we got so big,

having that website accessible,
where it kind of shared…

all around,
not Australia, but Sydney.

[Narelle] Yeah.

Did that involve a lot
of extra cost as well?

[Craig] Not too much,
to be honest.

Once we kind of, I mean,
building a website isn't cheap,

but once we did have the website,

it was more just in the
planning aspect of the website.

-[Craig] So…
-[Narelle] Yeah.

[Craig] Being able to say,
you know, I need this accessible,

and the colour scheme
and things like that.

So,

yeah, no, not a
hell of a lot, no.

It was more just
being, having that,

having that in the planning
and being mindful of that

to make it all accessible
while building the website.

[Narelle] Yeah. Yeah.
It's interesting, isn't it?

You've moved on
from The Blind Chef…

Cafe now, and you're doing
something completely different.

What are you going to do?

[Craig] I am. So,

throughout my life,

I've obviously been
through a bit of health things,

and being able to overcome those.

So, I'm moving into a
bit of public speaking,

so I'm hoping to do
motivational speaking,

and, you know, hopefully
just share my story,

and inspire others too.

But for myself,

I want to show others that they
can achieve what they want to.

It's just a matter of
setting their goals

and being able to get the
help they need to do that.

That's kind of what I'm hoping
to do in my next adventure.

[Narelle] Yeah. What type of…

accessibility considerations do
you have to do for that, Craig?

I mean, that's very
different from The Blind Chef.

You'd still have the website.

You're building
different things again.

[Craig] Yeah. Well, the
website's the next thing.

I suppose,

find bigger venues,

so that I could fit all
the guide dogs in there,

in one way or the other.

But, yeah.

Even on,

you know, finding myself,

you know, if they want to
have a chat or things like that,

to making the website and
the Facebook and all accessible.

But yeah.

It's…

It's something that
I'm very keen on doing.

I'm only at the early stages now,

so just trying to get my
name out there, and…

and hopefully, one day be
able to be on a larger scale,

and help others,
and then move into…

maybe one-to-ones
and things like that.

So I'm really
looking forward to it.

[Narelle] Sounds awesome.

As a motivational speaker,

what barriers do you
think you're going to find

that you can anticipate?

[Craig] It's a good question.

Barriers?

[Narelle] Yeah.

I know for me, I was at a
conference not long ago.

And I was speaking,

and I couldn't see where
the edge of the stage was.

[Craig] Yeah, that's a good one.

[Narelle] That was interesting.

[Craig] You know,
I think with me,

they always say
with public speaking,

it's about using hand gestures
and obviously eyesight, and…

kind of looking around the room.

So, that's kind of a
barrier. I'd certainly…

I, the last one I did…

was one of the first
times I really opened up,

and spoke about
becoming blind, and…

It was quite…

hard for myself to
become vulnerable.

I've never really
done that in my life.

I've always been that
strong minded person,

and, you know, anything's
fine, and things like that.

So, it was hard
to talk about that.

At the same time,

you're right,
it's like, where's the stage?

And having all these
other things think about.

You know, am I looking
in the right direction,

things like that.

For myself,

I've got a lot of mates,

and I like to,

you know, not
really care about that.

I bag myself a lot of the
times for people to laugh.

But yeah, I think that's
some of the barriers,

as you mentioned,
is knowing your surroundings,

and being able to
make eye contact.

So I kind of just,

just look and hope,

and then kind of
hope that my story is…

having them look at me and
and be interacting that way.

[Narelle] Yeah. It's…

I know for me,
I was only told not long ago,

because obviously I'm not aware.

Apparently my eyes flicker.

And I just don't
know, my eyes flicker.

And someone said,

you've gotta really try and
concentrate on one spot.

And I'm thinking,
Damn, that's hard.

Because,

you know, you move your head,

and then you've gotta
find the spot again.

[Craig] Yeah. Well,
that's exactly right.

I do that a lot now.

When I go to see a
lot of bands and things,

and I'll think I'm looking
at the front stage,

and all of a sudden I'm
facing the other direction,

and it's simply,

I don't really know
how I've moved.

I guess I just move
too much, but…

But, yeah, I have
been told that myself,

that when I think
I kind of look up,

my eye wanders a bit.

But…

I think, with myself,

I don't…

I'd like to get better at that.

So, it's just a lot of
time and effort into…

being able to become more
comfortable on stage and…

getting better with
the hand gestures,

which, like anything,
it just comes with practice.

And the more you do it,
the better you get, I suppose.

[Narelle] Yeah,
I suppose that's it, isn't it?

Craig,

what advice could
you give anyone,

you know, a person that's
facing losing their sight,

or facing some other physical,

or social or
disability challenge?

What advice would you give them?

[Craig] I think the biggest
thing I would say is that,

there's always a way to do,

there's always a way out
there to do what you want to do.

Like, there's no boundaries.

It's just a matter of finding,

like, a way to do that,

or the person that
can help you do that.

For me,

it's quite weird
to say visioning,

becoming vision impaired
has completely changed my life,

and I wouldn't say
it's for the worst.

I've become a
better person from it.

Meeting the disability,

or vision impaired community
out there is absolutely awesome.

The amount of
people that I've met,

and being able to,
you know, to help,

and obviously to see them achieve
what they're doing as well,

is pretty awesome.

So I think the biggest advice,

you know, is to not give up,

and to just keep chasing
what you want to do in life.

There's nothing out
there stopping them and…

it's just a matter of,

you know, adapting to what
you have and what you can do.

So just stay strong and…

positive, I suppose.

That's pretty much
the advice I would give.

[Narelle] Yeah, you
know, it's funny, isn't it?

I think we've had this
conversation before,

because, like you, I
lost my sight later in life.

Well, actually, I think, yeah,

I was a lot older than
you when I lost my sight.

-[Craig] Yeah.
-[Narelle] But…

[Narelle] I just find,

you know, you get so terrified,

that it's going to be the
worst thing to happen,

and then you realise, actually,

it probably could be
the best thing to happen.

Because, as you said,
the people I've met,

I would not have met you.

But for me, losing my sight,

that's a bonus for me.

[Craig] Yeah, I totally agree.

And, you know,

as funny as it is,

my dream from a young
age was to have my own cafe.

-[Craig] And…
-[Narelle] Yeah.

[Craig] The fact that
I got to base it on,

even the name, people
are like The Blind Chef Cafe?

-[Craig] Like, what is that?
-[Narelle] Yeah.

[Craig] So it kind of gave me
my uniqueness in doing that.

But again,

I think everyone that
becomes vision impaired…

is always going
to be frightened.

Like it took me a
good year and a bit to…

to, you know, have the…

the strength to start
learning everything again.

I was bed bound for
about a year, which…

half of it was
because of my health

and half was cause I didn't
know what was out there.

I had no idea.

[Narelle] Yeah.

[Craig] Was only until…

I started getting in touch
with Vision Australia,

and learning how to
walk again using a cane,

was I then to realise
it's actually not that bad.

And, you know,
from the people I met…

during the computer
course of Vision Australia,

to then doing guide dogs.

And obviously, until,

you know,

getting in that community,

I've now got good friends
that I talk to every day.

And, you know, we
both motivate each other,

or we all motivate each other to…

to keep going and
getting on with life.

So I think,

for myself, I look
back and think,

where would I be if I
wasn't vision impaired?

And I'd probably still be…

doing 14 hour day chefing,

and now, you know,
I've achieved a lot more,

I believe now,

becoming vision impaired
and kind of building my own…

my own individual,

you know, sort of,

what's the word,

like character or as such.

[Narelle] Yeah.

And that's it. I think, actually,
I laugh and say to people,

you don't know how good
it is until you've done it.

-[Craig] Yeah.
-[Narelle] And…

[Narelle] You know, people maybe
should be a bit envious of us.

Two reasons. One,
we're vision impaired,

and that doesn't
hold us back, and two,

hey, we get guide dogs
that can go anywhere with us.

So, you know, we're pretty lucky.

Craig, thank you.

I really appreciate
you coming on.

I was so excited when
you said yes straight away,

because I think people need
to hear the message that…

disability doesn't stop you.

Yes, you can cook,

and you've made
a career out of it,

and now you're
turning those skills…

into motivational speaking,

based on The Blind Chef Cafe.

Unfortunately, I never got
to eat at The Blind Chef Cafe,

because I'm in Brisbane.

[Craig] Yep.

[Narelle] But you know, you
can't have everything in life.

Craig, how can people
keep in contact with you?

Find out more about you?

Get you to come
and speak to them?

[Craig] So I'm in the process
of doing my website for them,

but at the moment, I have my
Instagram and Facebook pages,

which is Craig Shanahan…

Speaker.

[Narelle] Yep.

[Craig] My individual
Facebook, obviously my name.

And LinkedIn is the big one too.

So,

I'd love to, you know,
I'm open to anything.

If it's just, you know, just…

a chat with a little
group, or anything,

I'm really, or just to
have a chat in general.

I'm really excited to try
to help in any way I can,

and that's something
that I'm looking forward to,

in the next chapter.

[Narelle] Yeah. And seriously,

look, for anyone that
really wants to hear…

a story of resilience,

strength, and just a nice bloke,

talk about running a business,

the challenges,

the way he dealt
with the challenges,

I can only say, go and have a
chat to Craig Shanahan Speaker.

So, if you like what we do
on The Digital Access Show,

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Feedback, good, bad or ugly,

love it.

And we'll see you on the
next Digital Access Show.

Have a good week.

[music playing]