[Music] [Narelle] Good morning and welcome to another episode of The Digital Access Show. I'm really excited because we're doing two podcasts again. And the reason for this is a wonderful colleague, couple Sally, and Amir Meshel. Amir is a buyers agent based in Sydney and he travels to Melbourne and the Gold Coast and he has a special interest in working with people with disability and trying to help them find their homes. And Sally is a wonderful teacher of special education and she's got so much experience to talk about. So in each of the sessions, in two podcasts, we're going to talk real estate. And why it is hard for a person with a disability, Forgetting income - income is always a part of it, isn't it? Let's face it. People, some people on disability can only ever rent. And then, we really want to tackle one of my favourite subjects which is education because I really believe education is what makes the world different. The more you know, the better you are. So, Amir, tell us a bit about what you do. Tell us about yourself. [Amir] Certainly, Narelle, thank you so much for having us on The Digital Access Show. I'm really excited to be here. When I first heard about you and started watching some of your content, the thing I loved is that when you're connecting with people, you cover a lot of different modalities. So, not just writing, not just seeing, not just hearing, but a mixture. And that accessibility means that so many more people are able to integrate into society, are able to do the things that are just comfortable and easy and should be part of everyday life. So, the new tag for that, of course, is inclusivity. But, you know, that's been around for so long. The whole thing about a village raising a child, that applies now even more than before, especially with digital content, where some people are connected only online, only digitally. We still need the human element behind it. So, I'm going to be passionate about that. [Narelle] Yeah, so, what do you actually do, Amir? Because I actually, we've had a couple of discussions and I really love your approach. So, tell everyone what you actually do. [Amir] What I specialize in, Narelle, is doing what I've done for myself and for my family, which is buying real estate. I don't sell real estate, I really focus on the buying process. And what that means is, interviewing real estate agents, having a look at suburbs, communities, and growing areas within Australia, I predominantly focus on the East Coast. So, I have done some things in Western Australia around Port Headland, Perth. But now - and also Tasmania, Sally and I went to a wedding in Tassie. And in Hobart, we actually found the property while we're there only for three days. So, we negotiated on that when we came back to Sydney. But having over 20 years of doing the same thing over and over and over again, for myself, for Sally and myself, and our portfolio, means that I've got a little bit of insight into how it can help somebody else streamline the process. Now, what I found as - As a real estate buyer's agent, I represent the buyer, which means that I negotiate the price down. I get properties a few days before they're on the market. So sometimes they're about to go on a website like domain.com.au or real estate.com.au. But as the paint is drying, as the renovation is almost finished. And as the tenant is about to move in, Sometimes the real estate agent invites me via email or text message to go see it before the rest of the public. And that little day or two head start means.. Last week, so we're about to enter July 2024. In last week, Sally and I have probably done about three or four... We've done three or four property transactions just in the last 10 days. [Narelle] You're kidding. [Amir] What that means from a real point of view is, I saw a property that I analyzed on a computer. I drove out to it. I did an inspection for about 30 minutes to 45 minutes. Most people get five minutes to do an inspection. But I check for things like that the width of the door is wide enough to get through. [Narelle] Oh my gosh, excellent. [Amir] That there's steps... [Amir] There's no like, you know, trip hazards and things that you might think are obvious, but they're not obvious to everybody. But we bought something two hours after we saw it. [Narelle] Yeah. So... [Amir] Why is that possible? Because I can, I can see, recognize things and I'm aware of things that some people kind of need processing time. They need to consider and think about and analyze. Once you've done something for 20 years, I've probably, yeah, I've been to over 1,000 auctions. And I've read through 10,000 contracts or more. So when I see some things, there's certain things that jump out at me automatically. Just like anybody who works full time in a job. So as a buyers agent, all I do is real estate, all I do is property analysis. And I've done residential, commercial and industrial, but 80% of my business is residential. And I can relate to it because I live in a house, I've lived in a unit, I've bought houses, I've sold houses, I've built my portfolio of over 10 properties. So now when one of my customers comes to me and says that they have a special need, it might be finding a house that's 500 meters away from the school their children go to, so that they don't need to pay for the taxi to pick up the child in the morning, drop them off at school, and then pick them up after school. [Narelle] I never thought of that one. [Amir] So that little... [Narelle] I seriously never thought of that one. That's a big one. And Sally, like with what you're doing in the school and the education side, you've also got that back up for Amir, haven't you? Because you are a special ed teacher. [Sally] That's right. [Narelle] This is an incredible team, the two of you. So what you're basically doing is you really look at the needs of the buyer to make sure that their needs are fully met with the house. What issues do you see people with disability having in trying to buy? [Amir] So I think the biggest mistake or the biggest issue that people think about when they have zero experience, is that they feel that a house should be built from the ground up to cater for somebody with a special need. The reality is in Australia, we have different categories of housing, especially if you look at something that the government's put together like NDIS. There are housing - there is housing within NDIS that's categorized as silver level, gold level, or platinum level. And each one of those has a very specific list of criteria of how far away the basin needs to be and the ground waste for water needs to be away from a wall. How big a turning circle a wheelchair has within the bathroom facility. How many ways, exits, somebody has in or out of the dwelling. But that's really high level. And when you're going to a platinum building, the structure, the roof, the ceiling is designed to be able to install a hoist. So if you need to get in and out of a bed with the assistance of a hoist, the structure needs to be able to withstand the weight of 200, 300 kilograms of machinery plus human. So, a lot of people think about building something from the ground up. But we all know how expensive construction is today. The materials are expensive, the labour's expensive, the designs is expensive, the architects are expensive, all the compliance things. But you know what I found, Narelle? [Narelle] What's that? I'm really curious now, tell me. [laughs] [Amir] I found that in a lot of situations, if you ask the question of the buyer - do you need low visibility or high visibility? Do you need a different texture or structure in a room to room? [Narelle] Mhm. [Amir] Do you perhaps have an issue with having too much color, meaning that that stimulus overstimulates you? [Narelle] Oh yes! [Amir] In many times, it can actually retrofit an existing house, an existing unit, an existing dwelling, for the cost of a few thousand dollars, instead of the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And that 90% saving means that you now have an option to live close to the community you want to live to. You have the option of living close to a school, close to a medical centre, close to a library. Which means, when I say close, I don't mean 15 minutes drive. [Narelle] Yep. [Amir] I mean that there's either public transport on your doorstep, like a light rail, like a train, like a bus. Or you might even be able to afford, and really it's going to come down to price. You might be able to now afford something within a local area that is walking distance. So imagine finding something where you're on the ground floor, your doorway is wide enough. You might have three steps to get out of your house, [Narelle] Mm. [Amir] but you can manoeuvre over a three-step threshold. And if you know that there are three stairs, you can... [Narelle] Or, it can be turned into a ramp. [Amir] Okay, but if you're sharing, if you're using a footpath that's used for several people, then you need to think about if 90% of the housing in Australia is already catered towards 90% of the population or 99% of the population. [Narelle] Mhm. [Amir] When you're trying to buy that 1% or 2% of housing that's specifically geared for it, you pay a premium. And there's less stock which means you're looking for longer. If you can find a solution that ticks the boxes for you, that's compliant with your needs, but you'll save $10,000 to $100,000, $200,000, there's less stress for you to try to come up with the money. And stress is a massive killer in our society. People don't realise how much work it takes to just find a place of shelter, just to live in. But if you've got that and you're stable and you know your neighbours, you know your community, you get to play bridge or play poker, or even go to the local cinema, those social events, the local park, the local beach, that just means so much for your health. It's not just about money, Narelle. [Narelle] No, it's not. [Amir] Money leads to security, money leads to safety and money leads to shelter, where you know it's reliable. And you get to have your friends for a longer term. [Narelle] Yeah, and the other thing that I like about what you do is disability can be so isolated. And you're really saying you want to combat that, you know, remove that isolation barrier. Because like where I live, I can walk out the door, the IGA they know me, I can walk to the ferry, I can walk to the bus, I can walk to the train. And I'm not isolated, I now - like I'm signed off to manage in Brisbane City by myself. And it's those simple things that make such a difference for a person. The other part with buying a house is the paperwork. Oh my God, it is- for a vision impaired person or a person with dyslexia. What else, Sally? I mean, tracking issues. There's so many issues which make paperwork hard to read, isn't there? Cognitive, um... Oh, what do you call it? Oh gosh. But you know where there's an issue with filling out the paperwork, doing the paperwork. What, how do people get around it seriously? Because I know for me, terms and agreements, I'm right. The normal person can't read them because it's so small. I've got screen readers, they read it easily. But there's so many problems with paperwork, with signing contracts, everything else that people with disability have. What do you do? What's ways to get around it, that keep people independent? [Sally] I think it's one of those things, especially when cognition is sort of probably involved as well, like just processing time that people have. So just being respectful of how people process things and... Not to make it a quick fix or rush them and just respect that. I think that's very important. [Narelle] Yeah. What about, one of my biggest bug bears is the sales contracts, because they are not accessible for a person that uses assistive technology. How do you get around those things? [Amir] Do you want to handle that one? or do you want me to? [Sally] I- [muffled] You can. [Amir] So you mentioned dyslexia and perhaps dysgraphia. [Narelle] Yes, there's another one dysgraphia, yeah. [Amir] There's several things that might cause a massive issue if it's not handled the correct way. For example, an apostrophe or a comma can change the meaning of a sentence completely. Now, thank God we're in an area where now we have enough internet speed and we have artificial intelligence to analyze things quickly. But you know what AI is not 100% yet. I'm sure and true to our AI overlords in the future I do apologize. But right now, the artificial intelligence isn't perfect. So it might pick up a mistake or it might, what we call hallucinate. AI is known for just making things up. If, um... If you're going to do something where there's money involved, where there's a big decision, then use somebody who's licensed, who's insured, to make sure that they read the contract correctly and that they advise you legally and professionally, what things mean. I gave a great example on one of my YouTube channel podcasts. It was only like a five minute to seven minute YouTube video. But there are common words in English and common phrases in English that means something completely different on a contract. So the example that I was using was 'time is of the essence'. So in a property contract, in some states, Tasmania's different, Queensland's different, New South Wales is different. In some states, when you say in the contract, time is of the essence. What that means is, when you go over the expected date, you pay an interest rate. [Narelle] Ooh. [Amir] But in normal culture, when you say time is of the essence, that means we'll try our best to get it done on time. But there's actually a legal meaning to it. So if I didn't have a solicitor, when I read through the contract, and my solicitor, when they reviewed it, they didn't come up with the fact that- do you realize that the interest is 10% per annum calculated daily on every day you're late from this date that you're agreeing to? Then I might've signed something that probably... would have cost me more if I wasn't ready on time. And it may not deter me. It might still be okay for me to sign it, but I need to know. And I think that's the same with every time you're reading a contract, you don't just read it from an English or a common language. You have to understand that in this state, in this territory, in the ACT, in the Northern Territory, Queensland, Western Australia, New South Wales, each one has their own set of rules, [that] eventually will all be streamlined. But you need somebody with a license that actually knows it. So I've used, I was on Channel Nine this week, Channel Nine News this week about using artificial intelligence with these contracts. And so when we did one of our transactions last week, and this is just the end of June, 2024, artificial intelligence already jumped in and helped us, even though I have 20 years experience, to get through the process faster. And we were able to sell a property in just 15 days, using a website that did or wrote the contract for us in three days. [Narelle] Yep. [Amir] So I spoke to the company director on Tuesday morning at 9:30AM, and the first customer that already had the contract to see what they were buying, had that in their hands by 4:30 PM the same week on a Friday. So, from Tuesday to Friday, everything was done, including the paperwork that we had to request from Randwick Council, which is one of the busiest councils in Sydney. [Narelle] Okay. So, artificial intelligence is gonna make a big difference in the long term. [Amir] It already is. [Narelle] It already is. Yeah, actually I saw that. Yeah, I did watch that actually, and I was quite impressed. Yeah. The interesting thing with all of this, I don't think people realise the stress. Until you start doing it, the first time buyer, the stress of buying your first home it's unbelievable. So when you've got someone say that's on the autistic spectrum or whatever, what's your advice for them in dealing with that stress factor, and how to manage the expectations that they have, because we always know things go wrong, don't they? [Amir] That's a good question for Sally. I'll let Sally take this one. But, you know, from a Digital Access Show point of view, the internet speed of where you are is super important. So we're in Surfer's Paradise at the moment. We're visiting here just for three or four days. The cafe we're at is very close to the clock tower. So if you're getting salmon, salmon benedict [corrects] or Eggs Benedict, fantastic. I highly recommend it. [Narelle] [laughs] [Amir] But we did an internet test when we got here. I used my phone with a gadget that tells me what the internet speed is, because Narelle, when I'm talking to you on a Zoom, when I'm talking to you on a podcast, I want to make sure that I'm not cutting in and out, and my audio is working. And that's the same with anybody who wants to use artificial intelligence. If you don't have an access to internet, you're going to struggle. So over here in this cafe, and this is right in the center of Surfer's Paradise on the Gold Coast, we're getting a 314 download, and a 48 upload. [Narelle] Wow, that's good. That's excellent. [Amir] And that's just in local cafe. On the main strip, so right next to the light rail. So when I'm advising somebody as their buyer's agent of where they're going to buy, the first thing I check when I actually arrive at the unit, at the apartment, at the townhouse, anywhere, I actually check on my mobile phone, what internet speed I can get just on my mobile phone. Because you might get a second solution of a Wi-Fi spot. You might get a second solution of internet in location. [Narelle] Mhm. [Amir] But if my mobile phone works, and I'm getting- I'm using a mobile phone to speak to you right now, if that works, then everything else is going to work. Because it means that infrastructure is correct. But most people just find that there's no stock, there's no availability of property to buy in a good area. And when I say good, it means that the community is large enough and diverse enough to have the demand of internet. So that the government, so that the NBN code, so that the other providers have built their cables, built their telecommunications pits. They've actually put money into the ground. You're not just having to pay for internet through satellites, or very expensive internet. And that's super important for accessibility. [Narelle] Oh, isn't it? [Amir] Yeah, absolutely. [Amir, to Sally] Did you want to cover the answer from your side? [Sally] Um... [Sally] No, I think you've pretty much [muffled] done my job now. [Narelle] Yeah. It's just, yeah, I do appreciate your time. Can you give me a couple of takeaways? What can you advise a person with disability do to find the best solutions for them in accommodation? [Amir] The real basics is called BANTER. [Narelle] Yep. [Amir] Now, the acronym BANTER is something that I use when I speak to somebody to find out what their needs are, but more importantly, what I haven't thought of, because my experience is what I've done. So I know when I'm looking at a property, I want to take these specific boxes. But when I'm speaking to a customer, they have their own world experience. They have their own future vision of what they want. So the acronym BANTER, that is the first 15 to 20 minutes that I speak with a client is budgets, authority, needs, timing, experience, and risks. [Narelle] Oh, that's nice. [Amir] Very simple. [Narelle] That is really - it is simple. [Narelle] And following that up by making sure you're getting someone with, that's licensed. That is going to advise you and be in your corner to help you, because real estate agents really are there for the sellers. [Amir] Yes, we're- the selling agents are. So I'm a fully licensed real estate agent. [Narelle] Oh, okay, yep. [Amir] I choose to only work for the seller. [corrects] Sorry for the buyer. [Amir] And the reason I choose to work for the buyer is that there's 67,000 licensed real estate agents in Australia. Out of those, only 4,700 are buyer's agents specifically. The remaining 60,000 are on the seller side. So I believe that you should have equal representation when you're having a conversation and money's at stake. Then both sides should be represented equally by people that have the same qualification. So I actually, I started in New South Wales. I've got my first Certificate IV in New South Wales for real estate. But then I discovered that my clients were buying in Victoria. Now, Victoria and Queensland, they recognise a New South Wales license. But I went one step further. I went back to study and got my Certificate IV Victoria. Then I had another Certificate IV in Queensland. And then I did my diploma of property management. Sorry, diploma of property agency management. So that covers Australia-wide. But the reason I do that is there's slight differences in Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland. So by going to the source and learning everything again, yes, it gives me 3 more pieces of paper. And that might be an expensive way to do things. Rather than just getting automatic mutual recognition. But you know, those means you're talking about when you've got a client. And they're looking for somebody with a license. Find somebody who's dedicated. Check that their license doesn't expire in 3 weeks. Because some people only buy - They test the water. They want to be a real estate agent unless they become an Uber driver. So they're not dedicated. And make sure that they have no bad claims against them. That they don't have complaints against them. Because everybody checks the basics. They say, hey, how many reviews do you have, who can recommend you? All of us have that. But when you actually go deeper, then you check their record. The government has on the Department of Fair Trading or even Google. You can see what somebody's license is. So look up their first name, their surname. Make sure that they're in the state [Amir] that you're in. [Narelle] Yep. [Amir] Because otherwise, you don't know who you're dealing with. So look at somebody using the digital access that you already have. To check the qualifications. Not just how big their resume is or how good their video on Facebook is. That's a great thing to bring people in. But the real thing is, make sure that the person representing you is licensed, is authorised. And has experience. Has actually bought their own house. Otherwise, maybe they just qualified at uni, but they have zero experience. They haven't put their own money on the line. So yeah, I hope that helps. [Narelle] Oh, look. I can't thank you enough for coming on today, Amir, Sally. And how can they contact you if people want to contact you? What's the best way? [Amir] I'm on LinkedIn and Twitter and Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. But you know what, Narelle? The best thing is just send me a text message. Can I give you my phone number? [Narelle] I will actually put your phone number on a card at the end. But go for your life. [Amir[ 0488 499 299. [Narelle] Thank you. Thank you so much for the education you've just given me. I hadn't thought of a few things, particularly I love that internet test. That's a really good one. People with disability are very reliant on digital. Y'know, so thank you. And that's another episode of the Digital Access Show. I hope you like what we do. Please like, subscribe, review, share, Google review, Everything you want to get the message out there. And we'll see you next time. See you around.